I would trade it all

[tree]

I had intercourse on the first date and was given oral sex on the second date, both of which were her ideas. What was I supposed to think?

That she was interested in having sex. aka *was horny*

 

[BewilderedPerson]

That she was interested in having sex. aka *was horny*

She told me hadn’t had intercourse in more than a year, which makes me feel bad about myself and everything that happened in hindsight.

 

[Seladon]

Again, let me preface my comment by saying--tough love is needed here, my comments are not personal attacks, if you wanted perspective and real help here it is (from an actual female). Feel free to scroll or ignore if that works better for you, though, I'm not your Mom or your therapist.

Considering how she called me a really nice and well intentioned guy, I doubt that means I was unsafe.

I saw sex as a gamble for me, too, especially since I’m not going to ask for sex on a first date and am in no rush to get to sex. If it happens, it happens, and it happened, and it meant something to me.

Did you outright communicate to her how meaningful sexual contact is to you? Because if you didn't, there's no way she could have known that, nor would she have assumed it as a default. People can't read minds, nor can they intuit the exact needs of another person and meet them all (and if it seems like someone is, they're probably manipulating, loveb0mbing or stalking you--you need to keep yourself safe here, too).

It was a 'gamble' for you to engage, sure, but not in the same ways as for her. Unless you forgo all protection and bugchase, engage with bigger stronger men who enjoy ch0king or blood or something, or have the bad luck to find yourself a babytrapping bunny-boiler, sex is not going to be any sort of immediate significant threat to your life or safety or reputation, lbr.

'Nice' is a bit of a meaningless, placatory epithet ftr, not implying goodness or trustworthiness or anything more than superficial pleasantness. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, people say. Ime men who call themselves or whom others call 'nice' aren't always, so much. If that quality has to be pointed out, reinforced or advertised, then usually it's so the person in question doesn't snap or go apesh!t on somebody. Not saying this applies to you, but it does seem to be the case more often than not.

She insisted I did nothing wrong and I was myself. But I’m sick of doing nothing wrong, maybe even doing some things right, and yet my successes with women being brief and few and far between.

Is there empathy for my plight and my struggles? Loneliness can kill.

Seems you have a crippling terror of being alone, or of being untouched or unloved. Might it be worth stepping back from relationships for a bit to investigate this in therapy, or unpack it in private conversation with a trusted person? Because sex with randoms or short serial relationships is only going to make these feelings stronger and more painful for you, and these soothing behaviours might start to become injurious to yourself or others if the underlying wound isn't addressed. What I'm hearing right now is a lot of melancholy and self-pity without true introspection as to where the pain stems from, which is not helping you or anyone else.

It's also worth thinking about how this old saying applies: the deepest fear of a man is that a woman will mock or abandon him; the deepest fear of a woman is that a man will rape or kill her (or her children). It's why for someone to say lack of access to constant sex & love from someone is a 'plight' is a bit risible and red-flag.

 

[thejuice]

A man who pumps and dumps on a first date is a user. A woman who does that is finding themselves.

I hear the pain you're in, people are not happy in the dating scene, apart from the lucky few.

You have to assume they're going to be seeing more than one person in the initial stages. It's the modern libertine hellscape of dating. The unlimited novelty and self centred hedonism of risky encounters with strangers with no satisfactory way to adequately vet them. No responsibility, or any kind of meaning at all. Modern dating is like masturbation with a third party.

You could protect yourself by not giving away sex on the first date. A period of mandatory abstention would sort the sex addicts from the serious inquirers.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

A man who pumps and dumps on a first date is a user. A woman who does that is finding themselves.

You have to assume they're going to be seeing more than once person in the initial stages, it's the modern hellscape of dating. You could protect yourself by not giving away sex on the first date, which would sort the wheat from the chaff.

Is this part of that double standard that I mentioned in the other thread?

I’ve had to guess I was used for sex, but let me tell you, I’ve never asked for sex on the first date. I guess I just went along with it.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

Again, let me preface my comment by saying--tough love is needed here, my comments are not personal attacks, if you wanted perspective and real help here it is (from an actual female). Feel free to scroll or ignore if that works better for you, though, I'm not your Mom or your therapist.



Did you outright communicate to her how meaningful sexual contact is to you? Because if you didn't, there's no way she could have known that, nor would she have assumed it as a default. People can't read minds, nor can they intuit the exact needs of another person and meet them all (and if it seems like someone is, they're probably manipulating, loveb0mbing or stalking you--you need to keep yourself safe here, too).

It was a 'gamble' for you to engage, sure, but not in the same ways as for her. Unless you forgo all protection and bugchase, engage with bigger stronger men who enjoy ch0king or blood or something, or have the bad luck to find yourself a babytrapping bunny-boiler, sex is not going to be any sort of immediate significant threat to your life or safety or reputation, lbr.

'Nice' is a bit of a meaningless, placatory epithet ftr, not implying goodness or trustworthiness or anything more than superficial pleasantness. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, people say. Ime men who call themselves or whom others call 'nice' aren't always, so much. If that quality has to be pointed out, reinforced or advertised, then usually it's so the person in question doesn't snap or go apesh!t on somebody. Not saying this applies to you, but it does seem to be the case more often than not.



Seems you have a crippling terror of being alone, or of being untouched or unloved. Might it be worth stepping back from relationships for a bit to investigate this in therapy, or unpack it in private conversation with a trusted person? Because sex with randoms or short serial relationships is only going to make these feelings stronger and more painful for you, and these soothing behaviours might start to become injurious to yourself or others if the underlying wound isn't addressed. What I'm hearing right now is a lot of melancholy and self-pity without true introspection as to where the pain stems from, which is not helping you or anyone else.

It's also worth thinking about how this old saying applies: the deepest fear of a man is that a woman will mock or abandon him; the deepest fear of a woman is that a man will rape or kill her (or her children). It's why for someone to say lack of access to constant sex & love from someone is a 'plight' is a bit risible and red-flag.

I guess I should have let her know when we had sex how much it meant to me, but she did find out it was only my second time and the first time I ever had sex without paying for it.

Again, she was the one who asked for it, not me. I just went along with it.

Is it possible a person could be genuinely nice, genuinely good and sincere in their intentions? I’d like to think so, and I’d also like to think I was up front, honest and transparent with her. I never felt the need to tell her I was a nice guy, or sweet (another thing she called me multiple times) or well-intentioned. I guess she came to that conclusion on her own. People can make of me what they will as far as my character and who I am.

I’ve been in therapy for multiple years, and it can help, but you’re right, I do have that fear of being alone, despite being shunned by people, especially romantically by women, for much of my life.

On one hand, I think I’ve made progress recently - getting to a second date with one woman and a third date with another. If I just wanted to date around, kiss and have sex, then life’s been great recently. I want a life partner.

It’d be easier if I knew when I was going to die. If someone showed me a crystal ball that guaranteed I’d love for another 40-50 years, great. I’d have less to worry about. Tomorrow is not guaranteed to anyone and this is the only life I have.

I would get down when I would look at others , maybe holding hands in the halls in high school, or seeing their pictures together on social media, wondering when that was going to be me. It eventually was, just later than I’d have liked it.

It does feel like a plight, yes, being a long-suffering man in the dating arena and getting little success and reprieve through the years. I just had my heart broken and dumped after the third date, and that was one of my more successful dating experiences, if that tells you anything.

You can bring up that saying if you wish, but I’ve never been arrested, and if you took a swab of me and compared it to any unsolved murder or sexual assault out there, you’d get zero matches.

You talk of tough love, but it’s easy to give that behind a screen, I suppose.

 

[thejuice]

I’ve had to guess I was used for sex, but let me tell you, I’ve never asked for sex on the first date. I guess I just went along with it.

I know you didnt, that's a stereotype among others.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

Going against stereotypes, especially negative ones, is something I pride myself on.

 

[Tom]

But projecting them on others is ok?

 

[thejuice]

Another stereotype is that men just want sex, so by that logic you should be happy as Larry

 

[thejuice]

Defunct double post

 

[BewilderedPerson]

But projecting them on others is ok?

Which stereotype do you speak of?